I'm considering sometime in about a year buying a boat and sailing down to Nicaragua with it.
I'd want to find someone with more experience than I to go with me, but I certainly need to learn to sail my own boat before I go. The only sailing experience that I have is small boats (lasers, etc) years ago.
Any advice for how I should start learning?
These classes are $350 for 3-days.
www.oaklandnet.com/parks/pr...g_bks.asp
Are they any good?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Classes
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 12:39 AMjust buy a kellboat 25 to 30' and learn to sail with
you can fine in Craigslist -
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Re: Classes
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 12:48 AM
Yeah, I see lots of 25-30' boats on craigslist in the under $10,000 range which is my budget.
But the question is how to learn. Should I take classes? Or should I just teach myself and find some people who know sailing to help me along with it?
Cheers! -
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Re: Classes
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 2:18 PMis free to find some sailer to help you in beginning
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Re: Classes
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 2:58 PMGet on the Latitude 38 crew list and crew with some other people for a while. Boats of various sorts are always are looking for pleasant dependable people. -
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Re: Classes
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 10:42 PMto be a good team mate, is good to learn to shout up, and to do what somebody alls tell you to do
no matter how great somebody feel about himself
arguments and fight on the water are very dangerous
sometime, deadly
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Re: Classes
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 11:24 PM
For most things, I prefer just learning rather unoffiicially rather than going back to school.
But there are exceptions; With motorcycles, I recommend everyone taking a motorcycle safety course before they start riding.
I wanted to see if such a thing was necessary before heading out sailing. It sounds like it isn't.
Thanks for the info guys. I'll look for people to crew with.
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Re: Classes
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 2:05 PMFor the same reason that one of the other posters took motorcycle safety classes when learning to ride, I'd strongly recommend at least some classes before ocean sailing.
While you can get a tremendous amount of learning out of crewing on other folks' boats, unless you are overnighting out on the ocean (and with skippers who have done so before), there are likely to be critical lessons that aren't even thought of.
Since the City of Oakland classes only certify you "to safely sail a keelboat 20-25 feet in length in the protected Oakland Estuary," they aren't going to be sufficient in the end.
Since you are on a serious budget, I'd head for the place that best permits massive amounts of sailing on a budget: Cal Sailing Club, on the Berkeley Marina. [ www.cal-sailing.org/ ]
* They go year round;
* You can try them out at one of their 'free ride' oen houses ("at least once a month");
* You can learn to boardsail there too (a good way of learning to use the wind when you don't have a boat to go out on);
* It's only $60 for an entire summer of sailing (too late for that at this moment);
* Or only $200 for an entire year's membership.
They function kinda like a cooperative: every boat going out normally will have the experienced people charged with teaching the less experienced. Once you have experience, your job is to pass the skills on. Since you are interacting with a large range of sailors of different backgrounds, you can compare answers and try to understand why and when there are differing approaches to some problems, while other problems might only have one solution. You'll probably also run into ocean sailors, whom you can ask question of.
Once you have more credibility, you can try to sail on some ocean cruises (typically out to the Farallones, or maybe up or down the coast). A lot of Bay Area sailors are starting a fun 'race' down along Baja California right now (the "Baja Ha-Ha"), so there are quite a few floating around with at least some ocean skills.
In the final months before heading out, you might take some serious 'polish the edges' classes from a school that deals with ocean sailing, such as OCSC (also in the Berkeley Marina) [ www.ocscsailing.com/School/O...shore.htm ]. They have a full range of classes as well as private lessons -- you could easily find around-the-world instructors as well as more numerous through-the-canal voyagers. But they aren't cheap...
Oh, and the most complete Crew Lists for the bay area would be SF Sailing's [ www.sfsailing.com/cgi-bin/c...w_main.cfm ] and Latitude38's [www.latitude38.com/crewlist...home.html ] -
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Re: Classes
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:32 PMHey Adam. Are you back in Oakland? I taught at ASA and USSA schools for ten years. They are both good. ASA is a bit better on the big boat stuff, or was four years ago. What you want to know?
Karima and I own a 1970 Islander 30. Not sure if she wants to sell her though.
Erik -
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Re: Classes
Sat, September 29, 2007 - 7:17 AMI would take some classes. I'm a self-taught sailor from Montana. I sailed on the bay for years really not knowing if someone fell overboard if I could get back to them and get them onboard. If I had taken some classes I'm sure I would have been more relaxed about my sailing. It's nice to try a few different boats before buying your own. As with any sport what you want as you learn more seem to change.
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Re: Classes
Sat, September 29, 2007 - 3:15 PMRichard:
Thanks for the tips. The cal sailing club looks awesome. I'll drop by their open house next month, and perhaps even sign up before then.
Their informal classes look like a very nice compromise between the expensive formal classes, and teaching yourself.
Erik:
I am back in Oakland. I didn't know that you were a sailing instructor.
What do I want/need to know? You're the instructor, aren't you supposed to tell me that? :-)
I sailed lasers and small catamarans two decades ago. I read Chapman's "Piloting and Seamanship" last year. Mostly I think that I just need refreshers on knowledge, and a hell of a lot of practical experience.
When I head down to Nicaragua, I am going to try to find a more experienced sailor to go with me. I think that any other choice would be a bit stupid without at least a year of serious boating experience.
But once, I'm going to move the boat to Lake Nicaragua. After the experience of getting down there, I should be fine from there.
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Re: Classes
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 2:11 AMFrom personal experience dealing with people who were working for & representing Cal-Sailing Club, I would recommend somewhere else other than there.
At least based on several people I encountered who expressed intense amounts of arrogance, rudeness & unprofessionalism.
I had just started a membership with them a few years back, knew nothing about their procedures, tides, sailing, etc., which was why I had joined - to learn.
When coming into the club house office to ask about & rent a kayak to take onto the bay that day, there were several guys in there, at least one of whom seemed to be working there, standing around just chatting with each other. After respectfully waiting for a couple minutes while they completely ignored me, I simply & respectfully asked if I could rent a kayak. One of the guys made a quiet snort sound, as they continued to ignore me.
After a pause, he said to one of his friends something to the effect of "I wish we didnt have to deal with these novices coming in here" and continued ignoring me, until I asked him again directly. At which point, with an immaturely condescending tone decided to waste his breath with some poor, ignorant novice such as myself by snidely laughing to his buddies how stupid i was for not knowing that the tide was too high for them to rent a kayak to me.
It was a bit windy, but I had seen people kayaking in such weather before, so did not know. Admittedly I had only kayaked several times in my life at that point.
To top it off, when I contacted the manager of the club a while later and mentioned the incident to him via e-mail, he eventually emailed an apology for their behaviour. Said such things should not go on at their club and asked me if I would accept another month of membership for free, as I did not return after that experience to use the membership I had paid for. But when I replied back to explain what happened, and to inquire about and accept his offer, he never bothered replying or contacting me after a total of two emails and a call back to him to follow up.
Left an impression that the place is run by arrogant, unprofessional, people full themselves, with no sense of empathy or respect for peoples varying levels of understanding or lack thereof, sailing and related areas. Maybe the club was designed specifically for people who already understand all that matters about sailing, kayaking, etc.? But when i read the site originally, it seemed to me to be a place that I could also learn with people who are happy to teach, remembering that the people who walk into the club even knowing nothing yet about sailing may likely wish to learn and deserve to be treated respectfully. And likely have well developed skills, abilities, knowledge and apparently basic decency they may well lack.
Thus, basic & equal respect and communication is well deserved from the beginning.
Personally, unless the staff has totally changed, or at least the people who were running it before are no longer there, I would not go back or recommend that club based on my experiences. And have heard a few similar experiences since then from other people dealing with people working there.
Surely not everyone associated with that club was / is that short-sighted & immature.? -
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Re: Classes
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:38 PMAaron:
My plans have changed a bit. Mostly because of the difficulty and expense of bringing a into Nicaragua. But, I did spend time with the Cal Sailing Club. I'm sorry for your bad experience, but I want to stand up in their defense.
Cal Sailing is a co-op. There are no employees other than a student "day leader" who is paid jointly by the club and a federal work-study program. Like any co-op, it's going to be a bit cliquish. But I found them to be good, welcoming people.
You can't rent anything because, as a member of the co-op, everything is provided to you for free.
Overall, I had _very_ positive experiences there.
"Cal Adventures" is immediately next door to "Cal Sailing." They do rent kayaks. Are you sure that your bad experience wasn't actually with them? -
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Re: Classes
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 2:43 PMHi Adam,
Yes, it was Cal Sailing club I had those experiences with, not the Cal Adventures.
And you are right, it would have been more concise of me to write checking out a kayak rather than renting one. Its been a couple years at least since I've been there, I just remember having to sign out to use them. Thought there may have been a nominal fee to rent some equipment, but maybe I'm misremembering that?
Glad your experiences there were more welcoming than others, including my own.
The couple times before that I had taken part in activities there, the people were friendly & welcoming to relate with.
At the time, after then dealing with the person who seemed to have taken over the role of day leader(?) there, I simply did not feel like going back to a place where the few people operating it obviously did not want to "deal" with people new to sailing related activities like myself. Partly due to not wanting to personally encounter & support that type of unwarranted energy on a potentially ongoing basis, and simply preferring to support people & clubs that treat others with at least a basic level of maturity, accountability & respectful, clear communication. For safety reasons as well given there is some risk involved in sailing and such, especially for newbies, which could be compounded by lack of clear communication & such from staff or instructors.
I would have continued going if at least the person in charge of the club had been professional & decent enough to follow up with his communications & statements. Just made the place seem very shoddy & uncoordinated, even for a club.
Like most places things, people & situations flux and change. Hopefully dynamics there have improved.?
Glad you enjoyed your time there.
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October 3, 2007 – Alameda, CA
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 12:05 PM
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World Cruising Cat?
October 3, 2007 – Newport Beach
New Cat
(Click on the photo to enlarge it.)
Would you sail this cat around the world for 10 years?
Photo Latitude / Richard
© 2007 Latitude 38 Publishing Co., Inc.
Take a look at the catamaran in today's Photo of the Day and tell us what you think she was built for. If you're like most people, you probably think she's some kind of funky daysailor, and that the most ambitious trip her owner would contemplate would be a weekend to Catalina.
You may be right, but we have a strong suspicion that the cat in the photo is based on a century old 38-ft sacred design from Tikopia Island, and was recently built for long term world cruising. Before you fall over in fits of laughter, allow us to qualify that. We think she was designed and built for long term world cruising by Southern Californian Glenn Tieman, who had previously cruised a 26-ft catamaran from California to Mexico to the South Pacific to Southeast Asia and the Philippines over a period of 10 years. And on $1 to $3 a day, all expenses included.
Tieman's original cat was a Wharram Pahi 26 that he built for $3,000. When we last wrote about Tieman two years ago, he said that he'd just completed his new 38-ft cat which, because he used so much better and more expensive materials - strip-planked cedar and epoxy - cost a total of $14,000.
Outrigger canoe
Tieman said the next time he took a long voyage, it would be with two outrigger canoes for dingies. There are two with this cat.
Photo Latitude / Richard
© 2007 Latitude 38 Publishing Co., Inc.
One of the things that makes us believe that this is Tieman's latest cat is the outrigger canoe alongside the cat. During his last voyage, that's all he used for a tender. He liked them because they could be made inexpensively from door skins, a little epoxy and "any old thing for an outrigger." He made his paddles from "a piece of plywood nailed to a 1' x 2'." Because they were so cheap, he considered them all but disposable.
We're going to try to track Tieman down, so we'll let you know whether this is his cat or not, and what he's up to.
- latitude / rs
Crew Schmooze Tonight at Encinal YC
October 3, 2007 – Alameda, CA
Got crew?
Just in case you missed our earlier reminders, let us tell you once again that tonight's the night to make crew connections for the fall season. The event is Latitude 38's Mexico-Only Crew List Party at the Encinal YC in Alameda, 6 to 9 p.m. -
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Re:
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 10:22 PMD:
Thanks for the note.
Unfortunately, I had dinner plans with family tonight.
Oh well... -
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Re:
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 3:25 PMPrinciples are the same for small boats and big. Sails are airfoils, and you need to keep from turning upside down. In Lasers, of course, you have to move your ass, where as in keelboats... Well, you have a keel. You turn it upside down, you are in a bit more trouble.
We used to do a five day intensive course in Basic Keelboat and Basic Coastal Cruising. It was like boot-camp. Five days, eight hours a day, all week, or six days on three consecutive weekends. By the end of the week, you are ready to take a week of vacation. I taught at an ASA school called Modern Sailing Academy, in Sausalito. They have a website. The owner is John Connolly. Tell them you heard of them from me, and they might give you a discount. Pffft. Probably charge you more.
Hey, Tim, when you left, what did it cost? Eleven or twelve hundred bucks four years ago. You might find it for less. You might try that place in Berkeley (OSSA or something like that). As I said ASA and USSA both have good programs. ASA is a little better on the big-boat stuff, and USSA is more geared to racing. You could go on to Bareboat Charter, Advanced Coastal Cruising, and Ocean Passage-Making courses for a chunk of change for each. They are three, four and five 24 hour days each. If you just did the basic courses, and bought a boat, sailed it every weekend for a few months with somebody who knew what they were doing, you could probably pull it off. Bone up on the navigations stuff. You don't need celestial, as you would be just doing coastal stuff, but the navigation gets trickier the farther South you go. Poor countries don't spend as much on navigation aids.
Message me directly, if you are interested, and I'll give you some names to contact. By the way, going South is cool. Be ready to get rid of the boat when you get there, or truck it North. The uphill trip really sucks.
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Re:
Thu, October 18, 2007 - 7:37 PM
Thanks for the info people.
I've joined the Cal Sailing club and am now going out 2-3 times a week.
Everything from 20 years ago, is coming back very quickly.
Cheers!
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Re: Classes
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 5:14 PMIf you have absolutely no sailing experience, the Cal Sailing Club is really a great deal. Sail their dinghies a lot and try and get time on their keelboats. The next step would be buying a small and inexpensive keel boat of your own. Sail it all over the bay and make sure to visit the many anchorages. Stay overnight at as many as you can so you simulate life at anchor before you even leave. Small offshore trips to the Farallones, Drakes Bay and Half Moon bay would be the bigger step. I, personally, would recommend sailing offshore with another crewmate at about the distance of the Farallones and heaving to for a weekend. This may sound a little strange and maybe even masochistic, but going through your daily grind of cooking, cleaning, keeping watch, reading books, whatever, while hove to in 25 knot conditions while taking turns to rest would really sink in what it means to be at sea. Plus, you need to do a shakedown cruise before leaving. Banging the boat around discovers all sorts of problems which are best discovered before actually leaving. No West Marines in Nicaragua yet (I think...). Too many people dream the dream, buy the boat, and have never ever spent more than about nine hours on the water before they leave. And the nine hours was usually planned to happen in light conditions. Get out there and get wet and seasick with a safety net (being able to motor back to a nice cozy marina) before you really cast off the lines. That way your boat won't be one of those fullly equipped cruising boats for sale in places like San Diego and in the Sea of Cortez...
The passage down to Nicaragua isn't that tough. The longest passage is only a couple of hundred miles. Tehuantepec is the biggest challange but weather information is available (i.e. Don Anderson-Amigo Net) as many boats head down each season. The basics of sailing are easy to learn and common sense prevails much more than esoteric knowledge. What you do end up learning is a lot about YOUR boat. Cruising is a continual process of learning. If you wait and try and learn everything before leaving, you never will.
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Re: Classes
Wed, October 17, 2007 - 10:45 PMadvice, just sail sail sail sail sail ...you'll learn
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Re: Classes
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 7:38 PMi took lessons at Cal Sailing Club. they are great if you have a lot of free time. some of the instructors are great and some, well, they are volunteers, so you can just be grateful they are trying. i kept getting stuck on a boat with first timers so i kept getting the same lesson over and over.
i decided i wanted more formal instruction and am going through the beginner course offered by UC berkeley. those classes are pretty cheap too. i think they are doing a great job. we got to go out alone on the first day and learned capsize drills on the second day.
they say if you can control a dingy you can sail anything. -
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Re: Classes
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 10:26 PMIt may be too late this year, but getting on the Latitude38 crew list is a great way to get experience. Boats that race often need crew at all levels. This is free and if you get with a good crew you can learn a lot .
www.latitude38.com would be the place to look
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